Many may not realize that the start/end time they see in the OLC daily
results, flightbook etc is the logger on/off time, not takeoff/landing
times! The takeoff/landing time are only available in the flight
detail page. So pilots using the OLC flightbook as electronic logbook,
log erroneous time (unless they turn their logger on/off at takeoff/
landing).
Suprisingly, this was the way OLC display start/end times for years,
perhaps from the beginning. I reported to OLC and they promissed to
look at it.
This also brings another question: Is it still required to log time
using pencil in an official paper log book, or printouts from
electronic logbooks or spreadsheets are acceptable?

Ramy

On Nov 29, 10:17*am, Ramy > wrote:
>Is it still required to log time
>using pencil in an official paper log book, or printouts from
>electronic logbooks or spreadsheets are acceptable?

To the best of my knowledge there is no (US/FAA) requirement to log
flights in any form except that minimum flight experience required to
qualify for the current or any future flight. If you don't carry
passengers in a glider I know of no requirement to log any flights at
all (assuming a private rating or better).

I gave up keeping a paper log book for glider flights years ago, since
my BGA log book didn't have space for all the flight data I wanted to
record. All my flights are recorded in a database file and
substantiated by flight log records. Any required log endorsements,
such a flight reviews, appear in my traditional paper power log. The
power flight records in that log are updated about once a year from my
computer records. That update is usually triggered by a flight review
or by a flight test for a new rating. I'd like to get rid of the
power log too but I need a place for written endorsements and there
are still a few new ratings I'd like to earn.

Using a paper log as primary seems really crude and it's almost
impossible to retrieve the data required for a new rating
application. In contrast just a few key clicks in my electronic log
provides a screen full of all the required data.

Yes, dBase still lives!

Andy

On Nov 29, 11:44*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Nov 29, 10:17*am, Ramy > wrote:
>
> >Is it still required to log time
> >using pencil in an official paper log book, or printouts from
> >electronic logbooks or spreadsheets are acceptable?
>
> To the best of my knowledge there is no (US/FAA) requirement to log
> flights in any form except that minimum flight experience required to
> qualify for the current or any future flight. *If you don't carry
> passengers in a glider I know of no requirement to log any flights at
> all (assuming a private rating or better).
>
> I gave up keeping a paper log book for glider flights years ago, since
> my BGA log book didn't have space for all the flight data I wanted to
> record. *All my flights are recorded in a database file and
> substantiated by flight log records. Any required log endorsements,
> such a flight reviews, appear in my traditional paper power log. The
> power flight records in that log are updated about once a year from my
> computer records. That update is usually triggered by a flight review
> or by a flight test for a new rating. *I'd like to get rid of the
> power log too but I need a place for written endorsements and there
> are still a few new ratings I'd like to earn.
>
> Using a paper log as primary seems really crude and it's almost
> impossible to retrieve the data required for a new rating
> application. *In contrast just a few key clicks in my electronic log
> provides a screen full of all the required data.
>
> Yes, dBase still lives!
>
> Andy

....and Andy still uses VisiCalc!

Mike

On 11/29/2010 11:51 AM, Mike the Strike wrote:
> On Nov 29, 11:44 am, > wrote:

>> Using a paper log as primary seems really crude and it's almost
>> impossible to retrieve the data required for a new rating
>> application. In contrast just a few key clicks in my electronic log
>> provides a screen full of all the required data.
>>
>> Yes, dBase still lives!
>>
>> Andy
>
> ...and Andy still uses VisiCalc!

Isn't that older than the guys that developed Google?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Nov 29, 12:51*pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
>
> ...and Andy still uses VisiCalc!

Not true, but I still have a working Beeb. It was that computer that
hosted my second generation glider log book. After that I gave up
coding the database application myself and went commercial.

Andy

Mike,

That's funny. However, in ther world of dBase, I personallly preferred R-Base.


"Mike the Strike" > wrote in message ...
On Nov 29, 11:44 am, Andy > wrote:

.... Snip ...

>
> Yes, dBase still lives!
>
> Andy

....and Andy still uses VisiCalc!

Mike

On Nov 29, 9:17*am, Ramy > wrote:
> Many may not realize that the start/end time they see in the OLC daily
> results, flightbook etc is the logger on/off time, not takeoff/landing
> times! The takeoff/landing time are only available in the flight
> detail page. So pilots using the OLC flightbook as electronic logbook,
> log erroneous time (unless they turn *their logger on/off at takeoff/
> landing).
> Suprisingly, this was the way OLC display start/end times for years,
> perhaps from the beginning. I reported to OLC and they promissed to
> look at it.
> This also brings another question: Is it still required to log time
> using pencil in an official paper log book, or printouts from
> electronic logbooks or spreadsheets are acceptable?
>
> Ramy

Some loggers record from when they are turned on, others (the 302A I
have, for example) buffer X amount of time, throwing away the oldest
datapoints until movement begins. The Cambridge also stops recording
shortly after the glider stops. I was trying to write a macro that
would detect significant movement, and when movement stops, (from a
raw .igc file). As it turns out, that's not all that difficult, but
what IS tough is determining the release altitude. After beating my
cranium against a brick wall for several hours, I decided that
entering the data for each flight into my Excel Logbook manually
wasn't such a PITA after all.
BTW, I actually MISS dBase!

Ok, it is getting even more confusing. Based on analysis of multiple
olc flights I found that, depends on your logger and the method of
submiting (direct OLC claim vs SeeYou) your start time will be either:
1 - Your takeoff time (correct) - when using loggers such as 302.
2 - Your logger start time (could be very incorrect) - When using
loggers such as Winpilot with direct OLC claim form.
3 - Your release time - when submitting from SeeYou.
Similarly, your end time will be either landing or logger off, depend
on your logger.
Bottom line, unless you use logger such as 302 and always submit with
OLC direct claim form, your start/end time are incorrect.

Ramy


On Nov 29, 2:20*pm, Grider Pirate > wrote:
> On Nov 29, 9:17*am, Ramy > wrote:
>
> > Many may not realize that the start/end time they see in the OLC daily
> > results, flightbook etc is the logger on/off time, not takeoff/landing
> > times! The takeoff/landing time are only available in the flight
> > detail page. So pilots using the OLC flightbook as electronic logbook,
> > log erroneous time (unless they turn *their logger on/off at takeoff/
> > landing).
> > Suprisingly, this was the way OLC display start/end times for years,
> > perhaps from the beginning. I reported to OLC and they promissed to
> > look at it.
> > This also brings another question: Is it still required to log time
> > using pencil in an official paper log book, or printouts from
> > electronic logbooks or spreadsheets are acceptable?
>
> > Ramy
>
> Some loggers record from when they are turned on, others (the 302A I
> have, for example) buffer X amount of time, throwing away the oldest
> datapoints until movement begins. *The Cambridge also stops recording
> shortly after the glider stops. *I was trying to write a macro that
> would detect significant movement, and when movement stops, (from a
> raw .igc file). *As it turns out, that's not all that difficult, but
> what IS tough is determining the release altitude. *After beating my
> cranium against a brick wall for several hours, I decided that
> entering the data for each flight into my Excel Logbook manually
> wasn't such a PITA after all.
> BTW, I actually MISS dBase!

On Nov 29, 4:10*pm, Ramy > wrote:
> Bottom line, unless you use logger such as 302 and always submit with
> OLC direct claim form, your start/end time are incorrect.

Get a free copy of Cambridge Aero Explorer Plus. The easily generated
flight analysis includes a flight time record that can be used in your
log book.

BTW the 302 is not the only Cambridge that has intelligent logger
start/stop. The 20 and 25 also do this.

Wonder what the market is for 20 and 25 loggers. Did they get
condemned by RAS Court like the Volkslogger?

Andy

> Wonder what the market is for 20 and 25 loggers. *Did they get
> condemned by RAS Court like the Volkslogger?

not yet, haven't been a lot of them for sale lately